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- A Literary Analysis of Matthew (The Transfiguration) Pages 1 - 8 - Text Version | FlipHTML5
Most scholars are simply not comfortable with the early dating that this rather simple and clear identification gives.. As for the Mark ending in Steven: The blog post by Solomoni actually goes against your view! Read to his final statement.
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Likewise, the publication from there is more recent stuff out there! Irenaeus bishop of Lyons in the late 2nd cent wrote in Greek. All archaeological and textual evidence indicates Greek used among Christians in Rome not Latin through the first two centuries. See, e. Translated by Michael G. Minneapolis: Fortress Press, There is no basis for your claim that GMark was composed in Latin. I repeat: Your claim about the Theophilus to whom Luke-Acts is dedicated being a priest likewise has no basis. Since you consider the peer-review to be the critical issue I do not, as the academy has a built-in bias to certain beliefs like late dating..
Howard Marshall, editor ;. There is a great deal more on the topic since that was published. Sometimes events and research goes faster than peer-reviewed studies. It appears that he had been taught about Jesus and early Christian faith, and was probably a convert. The name appears in ancient literature, inscriptions and papyri, so there appear to have been numerous individuals so named. Anyway, to be treated as having any import, research must go through the scholarly publication process.
Why did the Gospel of Mark Survive?
Is there a good account of that hypothesis for the layman? Early Christianity and Hellenistic Judaism. Edinburgh: T. Clark, , pp. Do you mean J. Thanks for the references! I think the fact that GMatthew became more prominent in the readings of the churches over that of GMark is due in my estimation to the human inclination towards having longer and fuller accounts especially in this case of the life and sayings of Jesus. The more the better I would assume. It seems GMatthew took pride of place because of its fuller account. I would assume that most scholars accept the more extravagant narratives found in the later Gospels as a kind of mythic framework in which to tell the Jesus story, virgin births, heavenly signs and Wise men bearing gifts being examples.
Are there similar biographies dealing with historical figures from the ancient world that were primary influences on the Gospels? Or are the Gospels unique? Mark: There are somewhat similar types of stories of miraculous births or omens marking the births of important figures e.
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That is, the Gospels also rather directly reflect the preaching and teaching of earliest Christianity about Jesus. My answer, based on a view that the historical sayings source was somewhat different from Q as normally reconstructed, is twofold. Consequently it did not reflect the gospel as we know it from the letters of Paul. So some second century Christians may have snubbed it, just as Luther later snubbed the Epistle of James. For according to my reconstruction of the logia, its theology was in some respects closer to that of the Epistle of James than to the theology of Paul.
Secondly if I am right about its provenance, the logia would have been written in Aramaic.
An Aramaic document would have been meaningless to an increasingly large proportion of Christians as the gospel spread westwards. It seems likely to have been arranged topically. All latest scholarship judges that it emerged in Greek, not Aramaic. This much we either know or is widely held. Your other claims e. Deducing a neglect of Mark from a paucity of discovered early copies is unconvincing absent strong evidence of a correlation between use and survival.
Niccolo: Yes, it is an inference. But there is a correlation between the comparative number of extant copies of the Gospels and the evidence of comparative frequency of citation in early Christian writers.
A Literary Analysis of Matthew (The Transfiguration) Pages 1 - 8 - Text Version | FlipHTML5
We know that GMatt and GJohn were the favorites. And they have the highest number of extant manuscripts from the early period. Good point, Larry. My understanding is that it was composed in a more vernacular style. Niccolo: GMark is written in a syntactically simpler kind of Greek. But in usage GMatt was much preferred by early Christians. If so, would you comment on what that was and whether this might also have something to do with the usage of Mark during the earliest period?
Some type of mnemonic device from an earlier oral tradition, or just a scribal tic? Might a connection to oral tradition, if that is so, also explain both initial disuse, as a scribal preference, and later canonization? If you mean that the unsophisticated syntax of GMark might have contributed to it being neglected in favor of other Gospels, possibley. But I think in general GMatt esp. I am imagining a manuscript market of independent producers, as opposed to what I would think would have developed over time as the church grew in size and organizational complexity — a set of church employed scribes tasked to produce what church officials determined were needed.
If there was sch a market, and if as you say GMatt and GLuke were thought better suited to church usage in teaching, I wonder whether perhaps market forces may have contributed to the disuse and relative paucity of copies. Its association with Peter and the oral tradition would,as you say, explain rthe eventual survival through canonization.
BTW, I do appreciate your time and insights in this informal context, messing around with untutored sorts such as me. Niccolo: Your assumptions about the circumstances in which earliest Christian manuscripts were copied is not quite correct. For a good overview of the use and distribution of texts in early Christianity, see Harry Y. But PAPIAS, probably writing very early in the 2nd century, deserves the credit for being the earliest witness, and he ascribes what he says about Mark to John the Elder before him.
As far as I know, no one at all doubts that Eusebius quotes Papias accurately on this point. Irenaeus and Clement are most likely dependent on Papias. The difficulty, of course, in detecting the use of Mark by our literary sources is that often an allusion could be equally well to Matthew or Mark or Luke. This might have helped it survive, along with the Petrine connexion, which I am sure was very important. All of the earlier gospels were not saying gospels but gospels that presented Jesus sayings with the context it was spoken.
The gospel of Thomas is interesting but dates from the 2nd century. We should stick to the evidence we have physically not some imaginary document. Maybe I enjoy having my mind challenged. But I do enjoy what you write. Even if I might disagree on some minor point. Thanks, Larry, for another stimulating post. At the risk of restating what others might find obvious:. The Papias tradition raises questions Matthew wrote in Hebrew? I think the direct connection to Peter is probably a reflection of later concerns.
On the other hand, it seems clear enough that the Gospel of Mark was preserved, while Q was not, because Mark reached a status in the church which Q did not. The question is, why? Connection to an apostle was important later, but was it important when Mark wrote his Gospel?
After all, if association with an authority is the criterion for preservation, then Q should have been preserved without question going back to Jesus. These questions just take us in a circle. What is present in Mark, and missing in Q, is the connection to the apostolic testimony not only to what Jesus taught, but to the events— especially the crucifixion and resurrection, AND the meaning assigned to these by the tradition understood to go back to the apostles.
The preservation of the [proto-] apostolic interpretation of the meaning of the events was, it seems, central the canonizing process.
https://graphhaigalti.tk In some important sense, the answer again comes down to the status Mark had attained in the church. While the importance of apostolic connection is present in the traditional title of Matthew, why not in Mark? Why not in Luke? The Papias tradition may be historically accurate. What seems to have happened in the eclipse of Mark, however, was a pragmatic decision: Matthew provided a more liturgically appealing arrangement of the material than did Mark.
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If Mark came to be seen, not as a source for Matthew and Luke but rather a copy or digest from the other two, then it would not have been considered particularly useful or additive. It would have therefore fallen into disuse. But its status as old and apostolically related gave it the veneer of scripture that should be preserved.
Gary: Perhaps. I wonder if this would be a curiosity at all independent of the Two-Document Hypothesis and the question of Q. Or is it? John: Well, yes. I might also add that we have numerous examples from the ANE where texts were cannibalized. Notice, however, that we find at least two remarkable exceptions to this in Jewish scripture.